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Post by goosander on Aug 1, 2010 9:34:54 GMT
Does 85% of the boards money realy come from the bottom beats?? That then means as we are all rated the same per fish that only 15% comes from the Earn and the rest of the beats, tummel etc. If this is the case then there must be something wrong when one considers the miles of this 15% covers. Bob
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Post by love2fish on Aug 1, 2010 21:21:28 GMT
agree billy never thought about it that way .. but at the same time if you have biiked a weeks fishing you are the one that chooses the method not the ghillie agree the timing was all wrong . but hell the board are willing to try anything at moment they skint the world just coming out of recession and 50.000 thousand due to lose there jobs in public sector .. private sector/fishing on its knees there is no long term money pit now and they need every bit of cash they get .. and dont forget only 4 beats said no . thats alot og ghillies and beat owners that said yes dont see what all the fuss isabout its onlt a tiral and all fish to be returned . the tay is a big river and it wouldnt spoil the pools and they might not get the condtions for it anyway you never know this could be a good thing for the river long term L2F, would you feel the same if you were all booked up with the intention of fly fishing only to find out that the goal posts have changed and that your chosen beat will now be subject to raping by shrimp and/or prawn? Both methods are mentioned in the lease, "it is illegal to fish with shrimp, prawn or any part thereof...." and I am sure that will be the case on ever lease up and down the river. This should have been sorted b4 the start of the season b4 taking non-refundable deposits. Dave mentions the lower river pays 85% of the rates. As far as I undestand rates are calculated on a pro rata basis on fish catches, so whats the problem? Increase the fish catches and the rates will go up too. You pay to go fishing, not as a gaurantee to catch fish, you pay yer money and take yer chance! There are rainbow fisheries for that.
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Post by underghillie on Aug 1, 2010 22:23:31 GMT
I spoke to a beat owner from the lower river and he never new the shrimp and prawn was coming back So the board have not asked the oppinions of all concerned
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keirstream
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Post by keirstream on Aug 1, 2010 23:13:05 GMT
I spoke to a beat owner from the lower river and he never new the shrimp and prawn was coming back So the board have not asked the oppinions of all concerned Youve got to be joking UG. ?? Do you seriously tell us that there was no meaningful dialogue or consultation prior to this decision.? As far as I was concerned it was the lower river beats, namely supported by others that pushed for this insane measure to be implemented. How then can a lower river proprietor not know about the developments.
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Post by rubberwellie on Aug 2, 2010 12:52:44 GMT
Anglers rightfully go on about the need for a cull of seals/cormorants/goosanders etc in order to give stocks a chance to recover and thrive (lets not lose sight of the real issue).
I read recently that a saw billed duck eats up to 4lb of fish a day (that's a lot of parr), so is there a movement / group / organisation actually making efforts to petition the government to make a cull a reality? I know the greenies would protest but instead of moaning on forums and doing nothing are there any anglers out there taking steps to make our collective voice heard in parliament?
Fishing is one of the most popular sports in the UK and Salmon & Sea Trout runs have been declining for some time now, associations and clubs all over the country must surely get together and campaign to their respective MP's etc to take action on behalf of the industry. Anglers from other countries should want to come and fish for Salmon in Scotland and not just to the more famous rivers.
As long as the Tay board cares only about the Tay System and the Loch Lomond Angling Club worries only about the Lomond system then nothing will be done. Anglers must put their differences aside and be heard as one.... IMO! Similar issues affect fish and fisheries all over the country.
A petition with the name of every angler in the country would be a good start as would a vow to vote against the party(ies) who do nothing? Naive and unrealistic maybe but if anglers do nothing then nothing gets done....
There is a certain snobbery in Salmon fishing, IMO people should be allowed to use whichever method they choose as long as it's permitted on the water, catch and release is necessary for now but wouldn't it be nice to get back to the days where you didn't have to feel guilty about taking the odd fish for the table.... if you caught 10 - 15 fish a season and killed 2 - 3 nobody could accuse you of being a fishmonger whatever method you used to catch them.
If it's the timing of the runs thats changing then surely the season could be altered to suit, as long as certain rules were followed surely that would be feasible.
Just my thoughts....
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Post by cargillion on Aug 2, 2010 17:21:30 GMT
As far as I was concerned it was the lower river beats, namely Cargill and Ballathie supported by others that pushed for this insane measure to be implemented. How then can a lower river proprietor not know about the developments. [/quote] Keir Stream The best I can say about your post is that it is utter non sense and conjecture to possibly believe that Cargill and Ballathie pushed for this. It was raised by board members as being a possible way to get a count on fish that were not being caught because of conditions, every proprietor was consulted about it happening as the licence would require this. FYI Cargill is a professionally owned and run fishing beat so take caution in your posts when coming up with anymore inane ramblings.
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keirstream
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Post by keirstream on Aug 2, 2010 17:56:16 GMT
FYI Cargill is a professionally owned and run fishing beat so take caution in your posts when coming up with anymore inane ramblings.[/quote] Cargillon, if you can categorically refute my belief that this was the case, then fair enough. What I said was "as far as I understood" If this is not the case then clearly I am misinformed. However please do not get personal and be stupid enough to insult anyone by making statements like the one above. This is an open forum and if you cant see the frustration and anger directed at the board and those professionally run beats who decided to take part in such an experiment verging on lunacy regardless of how you dress it up then you are not on the same wavelength as the majority of people on this and other forums (including I might add professional Ghillies). You can describe it as you like and take your own stance for which I might add you are perfectly entitled but remember thousands of Minke whale are slaughtered every year in the name of scientific experiments. Does that make it right.
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Post by cargillion on Aug 2, 2010 18:21:22 GMT
Kierstream what you said was as far as you were concerned, not as far as you understood, different thing all together. Unfortunately like so many others when the truth is unknown a little bit of poetic licence kicks in and next thing you know our beats are branded as the shrimping capital of the Tay.
So i reiterate a liitle bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. If you dont know then say nothing and you wont find yourself in the middle of a sh@$storm
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keirstream
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Post by keirstream on Aug 2, 2010 19:12:15 GMT
Cargillon, the little bit of knowledge I have may be dangerous. It certainly is dangerous enough for me and others with much more knowledge of the situation to get mightily upset.
But one thing I never do is get personal. To me when you do that you immediately lose the argument.
B.T.W. Ive been in bigger shitstorms than this and always maintained my dignity. You should maybe take note.
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Stevie
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Post by Stevie on Aug 2, 2010 20:12:01 GMT
why no just get a big net n count how many fish are there , does anyone know if there was fish caught on the shrimp/prawn today anyway
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Post by underghillie on Aug 2, 2010 21:23:13 GMT
every proprietor was consulted about it happening as the licence would require this. Dave, I know of 2 proprietors that were not consulted about shrimps/prawns being brought back into use. So my question is will the license still be valid if they were to write to the Scottish exec?
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Post by ballingall512 on Aug 2, 2010 22:19:52 GMT
Gents.
I know this issue is a very serious one for many concerned, and will no doubt continue to raise some 'heated debates'
All we ask is that foul language not be used in any posts or they WILL be removed.
Thanks.
Dave.
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Post by underghillie on Aug 2, 2010 23:45:11 GMT
I spoke to a beat owner from the lower river and he never new the shrimp and prawn was coming back So the board have not asked the opinions of all concerned You've got to be joking UG. ?? Do you seriously tell us that there was no meaningful dialogue or consultation prior to this decision.? As far as I was concerned it was the lower river beats, namely supported by others that pushed for this insane measure to be implemented. How then can a lower river proprietor not know about the developments. Its true One would of thought that when the board decided to bring back shrimps/prawns they would of consulted the whole system just as a previous board did when these baits were banned in the first place. I have seen on another forum that a previous chairman had these baits banned because he so despised the ability of some certain people that he pushed to get the shrimp and prawn banned in the name of the the nets being bought off and to wards conservation The whole river was consulted and the common view was to ban them,and not just on the word of one man. The reason it was banned was that some beats were using shrimp/prawns from first thing in the morning until last thing at night and were killing every fish they caught, so conservation was the reason it was banned in the first place and not as the poster on the other forum suggested So to bring these baits back now in a conservation minded era is in my opinion total madness. How is it going to be policed? It does not make any sense to me that after the Tay has tried to build up a better reputation by cleaning its act up and be be better known as a river where anglers can come and fish in the knowing that it has not been raped to death the day or week before by shrimps and pawns, and they might have a chance of catching a salmon on the fly or spinner. Tony
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Post by kingfisher on Aug 3, 2010 6:33:25 GMT
Is this legal? I assume so, so whats the big difference? apart from not getting down as well as a weighted set up for the real deal . Whilst I personally have no wish to see the shrimp back because of its catching abilities and in this day and age of conservation etc, think we have been designing salmon flies that look as near to the real thing as possible. All that is missing is the smell and i'm sure a touch of shrimp oil would sort that out
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keirstream
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Post by keirstream on Aug 3, 2010 8:04:08 GMT
Its a crying shame Tony that beats like yours that pride therselves in being (almost ) fly only , spinning within reason, are going to suffer because of events downstream, possibly putting off the fish heading upstream or stopping them in their tracks after release (if they are so lucky) I also understand (hope Ive got the word right this time, there are critical eyes watching) that 1 goldfish bowl beat on a tributary (no names this time the alleged truth sometimes hurts) that advertises proudly an 80%catch rate to the fly is to be involved in this shoddy peice of madness. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins I think and boy are we seeing it big style here. If the board is so cash strapped why dont they try for a while to be inovative in their commercial activities? Look to the Dee board for inspiration on that front. They can raise money wholesale and although they have taken 1 step which in my view was wrongly implemented above Banchory Bridge, in my view overall have done a fantastic job raising funds with more to come. Im sure we all have a bottle of the DeeDram? I hear online sales on tackle and clothing is the next step? What do we do? Bring back a banned bait that previously anyone caught fishing it was harrassed,pilloried and jailed and add a bit of spin that the Chairman has the best interests of the river at heart and he is passionate about it. I have absolutely no doubt that the very same gentleman does indeed display all these attributes but as far as I am concerned(again right word) the rest of his board has advised him very badly indeed. Dave, I dont think you are pointing the finger at me regarding foul language. I f I have indulged then I appologise profusely. I do think however a certain other member should be reprimanded for coming on with his 1st reply and immediately being personally abusive. That is not on from a person whom I believe sits on some very elevated positions within the river administration. Little wonder the river is struggling for ideas.
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