Swimming action

[kingfisher]

I have noticed a few comments on here and other forums where they talk about the need for the fly or tube to swim level!

Now my thoughts on this is, if one thinks about the movement under water of the fly in river with strong flows, does it really make that much difference? Not knocking the theory, but I do wonder if we as salmon fishers get too hooked up on these issues.

[skagit]

My theory is that when fishing slacker water or when the fly comes to the dangle and you ar hand lining the fly is still fishing properly not just hanging. Not really an issue in fast flowing water.

[perthshirefisher]

To my mind,i cant see that it makes any difference if it's slightly angled or level.

I don't think a fish thats a taker is gonna mind if it's level or not if it's in front of it it will take it.

Maybe someone can educate me
PF.

[hagar]

I don't think that it's any surprise that flies tied in the " Ally " style are so successful.
Think on

[perthshirefisher]

Dec 9, 2009 16:48:18 GMT hagar said:

I don't think that it's any surprise that flies tied in the " Ally " style are so successful.
Think on

HHmm intresting! i wander if it's more to do with actually hooking a taking fish? that it is prefferd to fish level,and not so much that it gets less takers if fished at a slight upward angle?
Still need educating maybe

[ballingall512]

For me this subject normally arises when talking about fishing with tubes.

I fish a lot with long winged temple dog style tubes, and when using a standard tube of any make up ie plastic/copper brass /aluminium, the tube unless in very fast flowing water, will always fish, bottom down.
With some tubes being worse than others for it.

Now this can be seen as a negative or a positive.

positive. The wing is allowed to swim freely without being too near to the hooks, and having it's movement compromised by getting stuck on hook points or wrapping etc.

Negative.

The fish is attracted to the fly by the movement of the wing, etc.
when the fish strikes at the fly, it is striking at the moving pulsating wing. The hook may be a good inch or 2 lower depending on the angle it's fishing, and the size of the fly.
This MIGHT cause the fish to miss the hook altogether, resulting in a pluck or draw instead of a hook up.

this is my theory anyway.


P.S use a conehead, on a plastic tube it solves the problem and they cast better anyway

[abk]

I have alsways preferred a fly to swim with a slightly tail down attitude, regardless of the type, or style of fly I am using The reason for this is that many of the items that salmon feed on in the sea swim in the upper layers do so with a shallow angled head up tails down attitude. Also if you watch small freshwater fish or even some aquatic insects when they traverse a flow they also seem to adopt a slight nose up swimming technique. To me a fly swimming across a pool or stream with such profile will look much more natural to the salmon.

[kingfisher]

That was my thoughts generally that the angle is a subjective point with salmon fishers as opposed to what matters to the fish.

As I said before when fishing a fly in particular and a light tube to some degree, does it matter at all due to the movements in the currents. I don't know the answer and doubt if we will ever know the minds of the fish etc.

For instance, is there any study or even as a result of a fishing party discussing this very issue after a weeks fishing came up with any [suggestive] evidence that a fly swimming level will catch more than one fishing at an angle in the water, or even upside down for that matter!! I doubt it I think.

But as long as we catch fish, thats the main thing I suppose.

kf

[abk]

I had this short article published in FF&FT a few years back. Perhaps members might find it useful.

HEAD UP TAILS DOWN

By

A.B.K.



Tubes are available in a wide variety of lengths and weights and can because of these qualities be used, if wished, right through the entire season. There are no situations I can think of, aside from where they are not allowed, when a tube of one type or another cannot be used. Tube flies, if used properly are deadly enticers of fish.

It has long been lorded in order for a tube fly to fish properly and appear attractive to fish it must swim level. Taking what is said in context I tend on the whole to agree with the approach preached. Given these pontifications are related to flies fished mid water and deeper, which is where I suspect the anglers who preach this approach present their own tube flies I have no argument. My explanation for having no inverse reasoning is simply this, fish and other small free swimming creatures in mid water, or deeper have an apparent tendency to swim in a level plane. On the other hand, if the same expounders are talking universal tube fly presentation then I have one or two points to make. Borne from studies I have made, many small free swimming predators when cruising near the surface have a leaning to swim tail down, whether they be innate to sea or river. At sea many small predators employ a tail down position when feeding on zoo plankton near the surface. In a river when small predators are traversing sections of water with any semblance a flow when looking for food, will frequently adopt a similar tail down attitude. The feeding paths at times are random, but at other times it is very similar to an anglers fly wending down and across a pool. This swimming/feeding behaviour first became apparent to me while watching shoals of minnows many years ago. When minnows are swimming around looking for food mid water and deeper they adopted a level posture, but when swimming round within nine or less inches of the surface they will often adopt a tail down posture. I have also watched free swimming nymphs adopt a tail down behaviour when ascending to the surface. The reason for small fish travelling suchlike near the surface, I believe is dualistic. Firstly it is so that they can ride the current easier, and two, it makes them appear smaller and less conspicuous when viewed from above and below. To prove this hold out one of your hands, palm facing down, and look downwards on it from above. Now incline your finger tips downwardly, while still looking from above. The overall length of your hand will diminish the more you incline towards the vertical. Additionally these creatures, by adopting a tail down position, when crossing a current cause their bodies to act as hydrovanes. As such they can, because of this posture use the incident current working along their lengths to manoeuvre across a stretch of water with much less effort, than if swimming in a lateral plane. Like vultures riding thermals, fish and other aquatic creatures are all too talented at exploiting the available currents for their advantage.

As you have probably gathered from a previous article I am not totally won over to having to present a fly at its "correct" swimming speed for a fish to show interest. I am however a great believer in getting my fly to promote the "necessary" illusion of life. Some anglers will no doubt be saying surely then in order to create the illusion of life a fly must certainly be swimming at the correct speed. If I was trying to create the exact illusion of life the "correct" swimming speed would in fact have to be taken into the equation. However, in order to formulate an equation though we would have to include all the other components. And since this is impossible, why try. People who have studied ethology (animal behaviour), of which I am one, will tell you exact likeness is not essential to provoke a response, i.e. like a male robin attacking a piece of red wool, or a young sea-gull adopting a beak open posture on seeing the colour yellow. If exact likeness was need to stimulate these two quite different responses, i.e., aggression and feeding, we would need simulants similar in standard to duck or geese decoys used by wild-fowlers. Consequently speaking, if I was trying to create the exact illusion of life to a salmon I would not be lashing a few coloured hairs on to one end a cylinder. Since I am happy aiming for only what I deem to be the "necessary" ignis fatuus I do not take correct fly speed to be all that crucial. Having said this I hear the shouts "here he goes again playing with words". I must say I do not fiddle with words I use them in the context for which they were contrived. As far as I am concerned the two aspects of fly presentation are completely different. The necessary aspect of life is that which is the catalyst to provoking a response.

In order to try and promote the tail down illusion of the aforementioned free swimming creatures when using a lightweight plastic tube fished near the surface I do the following. Foremost I do not use the "over the counter" variety of plastic tube bodies, as these tend to have an obese like appearance. I like to make my own from transparent 3.2 mm heat shrink tubing. In order to facilitate the treble hook I leave the last 3 - 5 mm unshrunk. If I am fishing a relatively slow flow, and presenting my fly with a floating line, and require it to have shallow incline, I use the next treble up, from the size I would normally employ for the same fly fished level deeper in the water. The hooks I use for this approach are Partridge needle eyed trebles code X3 BL. I have found increasing the hook size by one perfectly adequate for this situation. With this set-up it is possible, even in relatively slow pools, to hang a fly over good taking lies longer than that which is possible for a conventionally arranged tube, or fly. The reason for this is due to the drag generated by the tail down profile of the tube. If the flow has more pace and the fly starts to skate on the surface I will change from a needle eye treble to a Rob Wilson type code CS9 BL of the same size I would use in the slower flow. Sometimes it is necessary to change from a floating line over to a neutral density. I have a number of neutral and intermediate lines from different manufacturers, however having tried them all the one which I prefer to use when fishing my tubes in this fashion is the Airflo Glass Intermediate. I have yet to find a fly line which has such a slow sink rate as this one. Not only is it ideal for this approach, but it also makes good on faster, difficult streamy sections of water where a conventional fly, fished on floater, will just not fish properly. Experience has shown me that increasing the size of hook by one is perfectly adequate for most situations, as I am as a rule only trying to acquire an incline of between 10 and 15 o degrees. Anything more than this, even in a slow flow, will cause the tube to skate on the surface, like the "Skated Tube" dreamt up by Crawford Little. A tube fly with a nose up condition is far more likely to be worked by the nuances of the flow than an in line variety. The reason for this is that it promotes a much large surface area to the flow. Plastic bodied tube flies fished in the fashion described dance and flirt about with much more life than their boring "in line" contemporaries.

[macd]

ze fly should sweem like thees

www.vimeo.com/8137403

[madkeen]

Dec 12, 2009 16:10:50 GMT macd said:

ze fly should sweem like thees

www.vimeo.com/8137403

First time I seen that on Martins blog I thought wow that fly is life like.
Is it a conehead or on a double cant make it out

[madkeen]

Dec 12, 2009 16:26:15 GMT Mon The Flee said:

its the double

wasnt a salar was it ;D

[weefrankie]

Are these new guideline 1/2 cones atype of diving wobbling vane to try and get as much movement into fly